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The Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815

Sgt Master Tailor James Rowlands, 81st Foot Regt

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Re: Sgt Master Tailor James Rowlands, 83rd Foot Regt

Postby OXFORDMON » December 21st, 2011, 6:01 pm

Hi Sue

Glad your having some success, the link is most useful too :)

Andy.
"Thus the war terminated, and with it all remembrance of the veteran's services" Gen W F P Napier.
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Re: Sgt Master Tailor James Rowlands, 83rd Foot Regt

Postby Sue1 » June 15th, 2013, 7:34 pm

Hi All,

Still struggling with this elusive chap - beginning not to like him very much! :(

I read something interesting today on a website called http//wwwshinycapstar/bnstaff

Basically it was explaining about the past ranks in the Army (possibly the Grenadiers but seems to relate to army generally)
at the time as James entered the army:

Master Tailors: Known until the 1940s as the Sergeant-Tailor, he was responsible for the fitting and repair of all clothing, especially ceremonial uniforms. Until the late 1940s (do they mean 1840s) all boy soldiers enlisted as either Drummers or Tailors and the Sgt Tailor, along with the Drum Major, was responsible for their education, welfare and training.
The Master Tailor wears a crown in a wreath as a badge of rank when he is a Warrant Officer.

Ranking is as below but not necessarily in that order.
Regimental Quartermaster Sergeant
Technical Quartermaster Sergeant
Drill Sergeants
Drum Major

By appointment the Master Tailor ranks as the senior Sergeant in the batallion. The Pioneer Sergeant is the second senior.
The batallion staff only attend commanding officers parades. Due to their extraordinary duties with the smooth running of the btn, the btn staff will not normally undertake duties. However, when on operation or in the field they may be employed as directed by the C.O. (perhaps this explains why James Rowland was in Lord Hill's Column which was not part of the 83rd. The Royal Ulster Rifles, which was the 2nd btn of the 83rd, who I had contact with some time ago, told me that "if he was in Lord Hills Column he could not have been in the 83rd Ft." but it seems to me that he possibly could have been and got "lent to Lord Hill" who apparrantly always formed a Column and fought where Wellington was).

Can anyone advise me where on earth I should look for him now? The role of Master Tailor still exists for each Regiment - in more modern times perhaps I could find him in the Army List but what existed so long ago that would allow me to find him. Is there a specific list of Lord Hills soldiers during the Napoleonic War? I have noticed also when looking at original records in TNA that Tailors are not mentioned - Drummers often are and I did look at the 83rd records whilst there. It is possible of course that he joined the Regiment (83rd) from the Royal South Lincolnshire Regiment - he was, of course, according to the old document in my first post, supposed to have joined the 83rd on 24 January 1787 in Newtown, Montgomeryshire, when he was 18! He may have spoken with forked tongue in this document (or loose teeth) because the Regiment had been disbanded before that date I understand. There is, however, some connection between the 83rd and the South Wales Borderers and the Royal Lincolnshire Regiment (or militia) - I don't think the document I read specified quite what.

Does anyone know where the 83rd were based prior to the Napoleonic Wars i.e. their HQ - could it have been Colchester, Essex, Stamford or Sleaford, Lincs - did Regiments move their HQs around the country. Is there anywhere that lists the various places where the regiments may have been based?

Another thing that makes me curious is whether or not wives and children travelled with their soldier husbands and fathers to Spain?? I know they did in early wars but imagined it had ceased by this time - I am unable to find the birth of James Rowlands oldest child Mary Ann - the 1841 census (which is the only one that caught James Rowland on record) states she was born in Great Baddow, Essex, where in fact James lived until he died in 1846. She is definitely not documented anywhere in Stamford, Lincs or Essex. All his other children - there were about 13, were born in Great Baddow except for his oldest son Robert, who was born in Stamford, Lincs in 1797. James and his wife Elizabeth married in Bishops Stortford, Herts in 1795. There appear to be no other children until 1801 and of that child (Mary Ann) there is no written record that I can find. James did not have a pension when he left the army - or if he did I can't find it. He had no medals - he died in 1846 and was certainly illiterate at his wedding ceremony - signed with an "X"

Any help greatly appreciated. Also (and lastly) does anyone have a picture of the uniform of a Master Tailor showing the Wreath mentioned above, which they wore if they were appointed WOs - a picture is worth a thousand words?

Sue
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Re: Sgt Master Tailor James Rowlands, 83rd Foot Regt

Postby Sue1 » July 12th, 2013, 5:25 pm

Well, well, well, The elusive James WAS in the 83rd regt of foot BUT IT BECAME THE 81ST REGIMENT OF FOOT.
He is apparently listed on FMP (haven't seen it myself) and he did join in Wales, possibly with a brother. It is thought
however, rather oddly that he joined from the 6th btn of the Loyal Lincolnshire Regiment/Volunteers.

The 81st became and maybe still is a Lancashire Regiment. They have been incredibly helpful - am hoping to get his records from TNA since they say they have them (but not, as far as I know, online)

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Re: Sgt Master Tailor James Rowlands, 83rd Foot Regt

Postby Sue1 » June 4th, 2016, 1:05 pm

An update! (I haven't stopped searching)
All my previous posts describe James Rowland as having been in the 83rd Foot .............he did join them in Newtown, Montgomeryshire in 178? but they were disbanded fairly soon after and became 2 militia groups - one of these groups went to Scotland and I suspect he went that way also. He, and other parts of his family did, however, seem to have strong connections with Lincolnshire and James himself, after marrying in Hertfordshire in 1797, lived in Great Baddow, Essex. He married x2 - his second wife was 13 when he married her. Between him and his 2 wives he contributed greatly to an increase in the Essex population. He joined the Lincolnshire Militia. I have just found a photo of the Militia building in Stamford and hoped that it might be a museum - no such luck - all frilly net curtains and elderly folk living there.
I did find at TNA a James Rowland joining the 81st Foot from Scotland but no details on him whatsoever.
I contacted the HQ of what is now the Royal Anglian Regiment and they told me that it would not be unusual for a soldier who had previously served in the 83rd to refer to the 81st as the 81st was basically a re-raising of the 83rd foot. They also told me that most of their records are from the Napoleonic record era and not so many "modern" records! That is the good news - the bad news is that it costs ?£32 per hour for a researcher to look for the records and if I go myself and search it will cost me the same plus an overnight stay somewhere (this info from circa 18 months ago). Apparantly one of the battalions of the 81st was made up totally of the Loyal Lincolnshire Militia.
Basically, I have, sadly, got no further with the military side of James history. I suspect that fairly recently these records have been put on Find My Past, a website I find impossible to navigate! Sue
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Re: Sgt Master Tailor James Rowlands, 81st Foot Regt - 6th B

Postby Sue1 » October 3rd, 2016, 10:25 am

After a bit of a rest from James Rowland (no "S" at the end it would appear) I may have found out a little more about him.
He originally joined the South Lincolnshire Militia and some/many of them men from the Militia joined the 6th btn of the 81st Regiment of foot ............. I thought he was in the 83rd but not so! I believe the 6th btn were described as "the Levee en masse" (I have forgotten how that translates - ?they get paid for being "temps"). This would explain how he managed to have such a large number of children i.e. he signed up for "short term service" and served when he was able to.
I found an E-book on line (not sure if I am allowed to put the URL on here) and it mentions a Sgt James Rowland by name who, when the regiment were returning from India, an Officer on deck, during extremely rough weather conditions, fell overboard. Sgt Rowland, immediately went in after him (followed by 2 other soldiers) to try and save the officer - they were unsuccessful but James Rowland was mentioned by name as the senior person involved. The E-book gives quite a good account of the War also.
James had originally joined the 83rd Foot, having been recruited in Newtown, Montgomeryshire but it was disbanded fairly soon after he joined - it became 2 volunteer? regiments and either one or both were based in Scotland. On visiting TNA Kew I did find a James Rowland joining the 81st from Scotland but no other real info. I am told the 81st was basically a re-raising of the old 83rd.
I also gathered from the E-book that the weather conditions were appalling approaching UK (they were returning from India) and vessels were lost. The vessel James Rowland was on parked in a bay on Jersey. There is an interesting connection with Jersey i.e. some Rowlands have been found there and they are definitely related! I also read (somewhere else) that some british soldiers had to take shelter from the weather in Spain (in Basque area I remember although it probably wasn't then) and their clothing was soaked so they took off their uniforms and wrapped up in blankets they put their uniforms to dry by the fire - unfortunately they put them too close to the fire and following morning had no uniforms! A military tailor (perhaps more than 1) was sent to the area FROM JERSEY to make the soldiers look respectible again! It may, of course, be wishful thinking on my part that James Rowland could have been involved.
I believe they have a lot of records from this fracas at the Museum of the East Anglian Regiment and, on speaking to them, they tell me that they have more napoleonic records than anything else. Unfortunately their fees are prohibitive - it is possible they may be on FMP (ever the optimist) but am not a member and find the site difficult to use.
Where do I go next I wonder. Sue
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