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The Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815

Canister

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Re: Canister

Postby jf42 » June 2nd, 2016, 10:09 pm

DaveH wrote:At this time, the Austrians used Kartätsche to mean a complete round with the powder bag attached, whereas Schrotbüchse meant a can on its own, which could then either be loaded on a Kartätsche for double shot or popped down a howitzer with the powder bag in an emergency, as the shells came separately.


That seems to tally closely with this passage from Geschichte der österreichischen Artillerie von den frühesten Zeiten ... (Anton Dolleczek, 1887)-

In äussersten Fällen setzte ma auf die geladen Kartätschpatrone noc eine- mit vielen bleiernen Schroten des kleineten Calibers gefüllte- Büchse auf und nannte jene, sowie die niemals mit der Patrone zu Kartätschpatrone verbundenen Streugeschosse der Haubitzen "Schrotbüchsen."

Interestingly, on the same page is a drawing that refers to a 12-pdr round in use in 1844 that was called ricochetkartätsche loaded with 12 schroten or large balls, weighing 32 löthigen. In the same set of drawings is a Schrotbüchse round for a 7pfd haubitzen.

http://www.literature.at/viewer.alo?obj ... e=&scale=2
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Re: Canister

Postby TheBibliophile » June 3rd, 2016, 10:37 am

DaveH wrote:Just as a sidenote, there were some quite evil bits of ammunition in the Austrian naval inventory, which finished up being fired from land-based 12pdrs in battle. It was couple of long bars, held together by a chain about a third of the length down. Whether you put that into rigging or a land crew position, it would have been quite nasty.


Yes, there were variations on this theme, the generic term is "chain shot" being as how two lumps are held together by a chain.
Naval ships had chain shot which was made of two hemispheres, linked with a chain. When the shot was fired the hemispheres moved apart and the whole shot whirled through the air.
It was designed to be fired at masts and spars to shatter and cripple them, but could also damage rigging and sails.
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Re: Canister

Postby DaveH » June 4th, 2016, 11:56 am

Although they are a little later, there are some data from tests near (Buda)Pest in 1826-7 from the second edition of Smola's artillery work (called the Taschenbuch in its first edition and Handbuch in its second) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Oqk ... ie&f=false

p147: Showing firing in slow time at a target measuring 6 Fusse x 35 Schritte (a bit over over 6 Feet x 70 feet) across ground favourable for ricochet. The two figures are the number of hits and the width of hits in Schritte (just over 2 feet); a Loth is roughly an ounce. The results are the average of 6 shots at each range.

3pdr (28 x 3 Loth): 200 Sch 7/14; 300 Sch 6/23; 400 Sch 5/26

6pdr (60 x 3 Loth): 200 Sch 24/19; 300 Sch 20/27; 400 Sch 12/28

6pdr (28 x 6 Loth): 200 Sch 9/16; 300 Sch 9/20; 400 Sch 9/26; 500 Sch 7/-

12pdr (114 x 3 Loth): 200 Sch 37/16; 300 Sch 30/26; 400 Sch 16/28; 500 Sch 8/30

12pdr (28 x 12 Loth): 200 Sch 8/15; 300 Sch 4/20; 400 Sch 5/18; 500 Sch 3/22; 600 Sch 2/-

12pdr (12 x 32 Loth): 200 Sch 6/8; 300 Sch 4/14; 400 Sch 2/14; 500 Sch 3/14; 600 Sch 2/-; 800 Sch 2/-

18pdr (84 x 6 Loth): 200 Sch 30/18; 300 Sch 19/24; 400 Sch 15/28; 500 Sch 11/28; 600 Sch 9/-

18pdr (28 x 18 Loth): 200 Sch 10/13; 300 Sch 7/16; 400 Sch 6/22; 500 Sch 4/-; 600 Sch 4/-; 800 Sch 4/-

There were some additional tests with a 3pdr with extra rounds:
Schrotbuchse on a canister round (ie: double shot): 100 Sch: 29/12; 150 Sch: 20/19
Schrotbuchse on a roundshot round: 100 Sch: 20/10; 150 Sch 13/13

With Schlachtfeuer ("battle fire") - about two rounds a minute, rather quicker - at a target measuring 6 Fusse x 25 Schritte:

3pdr: Schrotbuchse on a canister round (ie: double shot): 200 Sch: 22 hits
Schrotbuchse on a roundshot round: 250 Sch: 13 hits
3 Loth canister: 300 Sch: 8 hits; 400 Sch: 6 hits

6pdr: 3 Loth: 300 Sch: 14 hits
6 Loth: 600 Sch: 6 hits; 700 Sch: 4 hits

12 pdr: 12 Loth: 600 Sch: 6 hits; 800 Sch 4 hits

12pdr: 32 Loth: 1000 Sch: 2 hits

On p.151, data are given about howitzers loaded with Schrotbuchsen - ie: simple tins loaded on top of separate shell charges. These were fired at a target measuring 6 Fusse x 35 Schritte (a bit over over 6 Feet x 70 feet) in "slow fire".

7pdr howitzer (57 x 6 Loth balls) - The two figures are the number of hits and the width of hits in Schritte (just over 2 feet)

200 Schritte: 23/17 300 Schritte: 11/30 400 Schritte: 10/25 500 Schritte: 7/26 600 Schritte: 6/30

10pdr howitzer (57 x 10 Loth balls)

200 Schritte: 18/17 300 Schritte: 7/26 400 Schritte: 9/25 500 Schritte: 7/26 600 Schritte: 5/30 700 Schritte: 3/-

With Schlachtfeuer ("battle fire") - about two rounds a minute, rather quicker - at a target measuring 6 Fusse x 25 Schritte across good ground (ie: allowing for ricochet) from a 7pdr: at 200 Schritte: 22 hits; at 300 Schritte: 20 hits.
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The Schrotbuchse was obviously less effective, not being bound to the charge, so it was an emergency or double-fire weapon. The speed of firing doesn't make any significant difference. The cones do seem to expand outwards as far as about 300 Schritte (paces) range, but not much after that. Unfortunately at the longer ranges, there is no spread classification, so it is not clear whether they just didn't bother or some rounds fell wide of the target. In contrast to the ACW film, only a third of the balls are getting out to 200 Schritte in most cases. This is really the maximum range at which these rounds are that effective.
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