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The Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815

Canister

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Re: Canister

Postby TheBibliophile » May 14th, 2016, 9:26 pm

Consider now HMS Shannon.
According to David Lyons "Sailing navy list" (1993) Her QD and FC armament are given as 8 off 9lb and 6 32lb carronades (QD) and 2 off 9lb and 2 off 32lb carronades (FC)

If the long guns were loaded for grape and the carronades with case just before boarding, the total discharge would be:

90 off 13oz of balls from the long guns
320 8 oz balls from the carronades

FYI I have 2 musket balls retrieved from the original HMS Invincible
They are just over 1 oz and 11/16ths inch in dia

:shock:
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Re: Canister

Postby Senarmont198 » May 14th, 2016, 9:31 pm

Generally speaking, the individual rounds in both grapeshot and canister were cast or wrought iron, as lead musket balls used in the anti-personnel rounds had a tendency to melt when fired and congeal in a single mass nullifying the desired effect. The French experimented with this in the 1760s at Strasbourg and went completely to cast or wrought iron rounds for canister and grapeshot.
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Re: Canister

Postby TheBibliophile » May 14th, 2016, 9:38 pm

OK hang on... from Dictionary again...
to find the diameter of a shot when the weight is given... multiply the cube root of the weight in pounds by 1.923, and this gives dia in inches.

so in that case, in the 32lb grape, containing, did I say 9 off 4lb shots, each shot would be 1.5874*1.923 = 3.05 inches
:D
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Re: Canister

Postby TheBibliophile » May 14th, 2016, 9:53 pm

13oz shot 1.8 inches
8oz shot 1.53 inches
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Re: Canister

Postby jf42 » May 15th, 2016, 9:09 am

Senarmont198 wrote:
jf42 wrote:...since that appears to have been the case.


Is that a canister joke? :oops:



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Re: Canister

Postby Senarmont198 » May 15th, 2016, 11:07 am

:?
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Re: Canister

Postby TheBibliophile » May 15th, 2016, 12:21 pm

Boom Boom.
:D
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Re: Canister

Postby DaveH » May 31st, 2016, 4:51 pm

Just as a sidenote, there were some quite evil bits of ammunition in the Austrian naval inventory, which finished up being fired from land-based 12pdrs in battle. It was couple of long bars, held together by a chain about a third of the length down. Whether you put that into rigging or a land crew position, it would have been quite nasty.

Anyway, back to the original subject, I have been working on a memoir by Graf Hochenegg of IR23 Toscana at Marengo, which may shed some light on one issue in Dawson, Dawson & Summerfield: 'Napoleonic Artillery'. On p.247 (with a diagram on p.246) they say the canister tin flies out of the barrel and then ruptures on hitting the round. My understanding of Austrian canister (and I presume the French was similar) was that there was a crumple zone just above the sabot at the bottom of the canister tin. On firing, the sabot would move into the crumple zone, thereby reducing the volume of the tin and raising the air pressure in it. A combination of that, the force of the firing and balls moving in the tin would make it fail at its weakest point - ie: the tin foil cover at the top and so, it produces a shotgun effect somewhere close to the muzzle.

However, although it is tricky text, being written in the Kurrent, it seems that Hochenegg (of 1st battalion IR23 Toscana) sees a canister round coming in , as he says it hits the ground and then he says he is wounded in the left shoulder. I suppose this makes sense in a situation, where the design has not worked properly and for some reason, the tin has not failed on firing. The tin can then only travel until it hits the ground, at which point, the sudden stop of the tin, but continued movement of the balls, would cause it to split open and shower the local area with balls?
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Re: Canister

Postby Senarmont198 » May 31st, 2016, 10:18 pm

Dawson, et al, are completely wrong regarding canister and how the round functions.

French canister was constructed in a tin canister with an iron top and bottom with the iron balls that made up the round packed in sawdust.

Its construction is covered in Descheel and Tousard and if anyone is interested I'll post the pages and some of the material on the construction and testing of the round.
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Re: Canister

Postby DaveH » June 1st, 2016, 11:54 am

TheBibliophile wrote:Boom Boom.
:D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UKpZxM-c9w :D
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