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Re: ARTICLE | The Third (India) Pattern Brown Bess Musket

PostPosted: April 17th, 2014, 8:33 am
by Mark
terry1956 wrote:Hi, , interesting, but a bit wrong in places.


Hi Micheal

If you can list the errors and provide sources for the new info I will produce an updated version of the article.

Mark

Re: ARTICLE | The Third (India) Pattern Brown Bess Musket

PostPosted: April 17th, 2014, 12:45 pm
by terry1956
Thats correct, but until late 1807 all british issue firearms bar for home force, and some smaller units had to be tower stamped.the so called east indian muskets came about due to the need to increase production due to the loses in spain and holland, but also india.so great was the need that two ship loads of muskets bound for india had to return to the uk . licence was given for the east india company to produce their own muskets.michael

Re: ARTICLE | The Third (India) Pattern Brown Bess Musket

PostPosted: April 17th, 2014, 1:21 pm
by Waggoner
I thought that the HEIC was already producing its own pattern of musket, a simpler version of the Short Land musket, circa the 1780s or 1790s. The British requisitioned supplies of these to replace shortages and then adopted them because they could be manufactured more quickly.

All the best,

Gary

Re: ARTICLE | The Third (India) Pattern Brown Bess Musket

PostPosted: April 17th, 2014, 4:36 pm
by terry1956
Hi, no the ships had just left london and got turned back at the last minute.upto that time the ordnance board had control of manufacturer. It was just the numbers that had to be made leading to the board allowing extra licensed manufacturers. You will see on a number of later muskets the name of the manufacturer, but no tower mark.
In the EIC most weapons had both the EIC heart with the cross on top ( turned into a 4 for india troops) and a tower mark.but like all things some units had india made weapons.i have seen a number of EIC weapons with just the heart and 4 marks, no makers name or tower marking.these on the main are from post 1807.michael

Re: ARTICLE | The Third (India) Pattern Brown Bess Musket

PostPosted: April 17th, 2014, 7:35 pm
by CMH
The EIC had been producing their own weapons for many years prior to the Napoleonic era and continued to do so until the 1850s. These had absolutely nothing to do with the Board of Ordnance and were made under contract by several London gunmakers.

The EIC agreed to sell weapons to the Board of Ordnance during the arms crisis of the 1790s and did so sporadically for the duration of the Napoleonic wars as noted in a previous post in this thread.

EIC weapons were marked with EIC markings and they are pictured in a previous post in this thread. The only markings that could possibly be associated with the Tower are the Ordnance private proofs that appear on a minority of barrels and these are illustrated in that post - as noted there, most EIC barrels had London private proofs. The only variation to the lock markings illustrated was that between 1804 and 1807 the heart and date appeared in the centre and the maker's name across the tail.

Muskets made for the Board of Ordnance had standard Board of Ordnance markings on them, whether they were assembled at the Tower or by the many contractors who supplied complete arms.

Muskets bearing the name of the maker across the tail or centre of the lock were commercial weapons intended for private sale, irrespective of whether they had a crown over GR on them or not. Some of these muskets were purchased by the Board of Ordnance after manufacture, and were marked with the Ordnance storekeeper's stamp on the butt. The lack of any Ordnance inspection or storekeeper's marks on a musket indicates a commercial weapon.

Re: ARTICLE | The Third (India) Pattern Brown Bess Musket

PostPosted: June 6th, 2014, 4:12 pm
by terry1956
Hi mark. my ref is. the Brown Bess book. michael