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The Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815

The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby John Franklin » May 17th, 2016, 3:01 pm

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Last edited by John Franklin on August 7th, 2017, 8:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby peterjreeve » May 17th, 2016, 8:36 pm

I've just spotted that Alexander George Fraser, Lord Saltoun was also a Freemason. He was initiated in 1806 in the Kentish Lodge of Antiquity in Chatham when he was a Captain in the 1st Guards. Later, in 1834, he joined the Prince of Wales Lodge in London.

By gum - Brice McGregor and his fellow Scots Guard Freemasons, Serjeants Plumtree, McRobert and Goddard, certainly moved in illustrious circles!
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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby Iain » September 16th, 2016, 5:48 pm

peterjreeve wrote:I've just spotted that Alexander George Fraser, Lord Saltoun was also a Freemason. He was initiated in 1806 in the Kentish Lodge of Antiquity in Chatham when he was a Captain in the 1st Guards. Later, in 1834, he joined the Prince of Wales Lodge in London.

By gum - Brice McGregor and his fellow Scots Guard Freemasons, Serjeants Plumtree, McRobert and Goddard, certainly moved in illustrious circles!


Hi Peter…, hope you are well. I have a couple of questions:

I’m trying to find a date when Ralph Fraser became a Beadsman !
As you already know, Beadsmen wore long blue gowns with a pewter badge on the right arm, and were nicknamed 'Blue Gowns.' Their number corresponded to the Kings’ years, an extra Beadsman being added following each royal birthday.
On the king's birthday each Bedesman/Beadsman received a new blue gown, a loaf, a bottle of ale, and a leathern purse containing a penny for every year of the king's life. On the pewter badge which they wore were their name and the words "pass and repass," which authorized them to ask alms.
As such, if I can find a date, I will be able to calculate how many Beadsmen prayed together at Westminster.

Also, as you seem to be an expert with this man and his related Free Masonry; would his Temple have allowed him to become a beggar ? (Beadsmen being ‘official’ beggars)
I think not…, meaning that for some reason or other, he must have either left the Free Masonry or had been ex-communicated for some reason or another.

Any info would be very much appreciated.

Kind Regards…, Iain.
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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby Iain » September 30th, 2016, 9:16 am

Hi All…

I had to modify this Westminster Abbey text for legal reasons.
As such…, here it is again:

------------------

I’ve still not heard from Peter concerning the Free Masonery…, only hope he’s in good health and on holiday.

In the meantime, I thought some of you might be interested by the following:
To help build a biography of Ralph Fraser, I contacted Westminster Abbey and received an excellent reply within days.

Quote:
“Dear Mr Wood
Ralph Fraser was a Queen’s Almsman of Westminster Abbey from 1841 until his death on 4 Feb 1862. (Obviously had a king been on the throne they would be called King’s Almsmen). The phrase Almsman is used here rather than Bedesman. (I am not sure that the fact of the number of almsmen here being equal to the monarch’s age applies).

Some years ago we received a letter from the Lt. Col. of the Scots Guards with this information on Fraser (which you may already have found in their records): Born in the parish of St Margaret’s Westminster, enlisted 3rd Guards 22 Apr 1799 aged 19, discharged 26 Nov 1818 “for long service and being worn out”, height 5 ft 9 ¾ ins, dark hair, grey eyes”.
The registers of St Margarets are online at www.findmypast.co.uk

Henry VII founded an almshouse with 16 rooms in the precincts of the Abbey. At the dissolution of the monastery in 1540 Henry VIII continued having almsmen but this time “for twelve poor men decayed in the King’s service”. They were part of the Foundation for the Abbey set up by Henry and continued in 1560 by Elizabeth I. So they were to pray daily in the Abbey “for the peace and safety of the kingdom” and came under the jurisdiction of the Dean of Westminster. The almshouse is long gone.

Today the almsmen/women usually attend on Sundays and at special services in the Abbey when they are part of the procession. All are still appointed by the Sovereign, the names being submitted by the Dean of Westminster but nowadays they are very rarely military/service men.

Westminster Abbey, London SW1P 3PA
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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby peterjreeve » October 11th, 2016, 7:56 pm

Hello again Iain - sorry I didn't post earlier, but I don't get notified by the site when a reply is posted (I don't know why!).

I regret I can't help you much with Ralph Fraser - I can't find a record of him being Freemason in England or Ireland, but I don't have access to Scottish records.

However, if he was a Freemason, his Lodge is unlikely to have interfered in his personal life to the extent that it would have prevented him from becoming a Bedesman or Almsman. On the contrary, the Lodge would have been more likely to try and help him out in some way - either by giving him money or assisting him to become an Almsman - even if he was no longer a member by reason of being unable to pay his dues to the Lodge.

Sorry I can't be more helpful. Cheers
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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby Iain » October 12th, 2016, 3:40 am

Thank you Peter.

I thought you had mentioned somewhere that nearly all the Waterloo Guardsmen in the region had become Free Masons. My fault !
In the meantime, I think Westminster Abbey has helped out a lot.

Lol... Perhaps if you contact Admin, he will 'tweek' your settings. ;)

Kind Regards..., Iain.
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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby Iain » August 3rd, 2017, 5:01 pm

Hi All…

Please forgive me for reviving this old post but the more the merrier in regards to my questions below.
It is rather urgent !

For some unknown reason, 'my' team has advised me to advance my storyboard by 3 months meaning that the screenplay should be finished by the end of the year.
In the meantime, I don’t even know the exact number or names of all the Scots Guards at Hougoumont. (126 ?)
Lol…, as such, lots of work ahead !

Hougoumont; ‘who came from where’ on the 18th ?

Thanks to ‘Hawaii Bob,’ I have the SG Returns for Mathew Clay and his Light Company.
This includes…
Lt-Col MASTERS.
Captains Rodney, Evelyn and Erlington.
Brice McGregor and other Sgts.
Corporal George Cadwallder and other Cpls.
Matthew Clay.
Robert Gann.
…, and many others.

My first question; why is Lt-Col Masters the CO of the Light Company and not Lt-Col Dashwood ? (it was Dashwood who led the first SG sub-division into the southern wood)
Total confusion !
So where was Masters on the day ?

Also; (thanks to John) John mentioned that Ralph Fraser from HQ Company was sent down in the morning to ‘help out.’ (reinforcements) So…, was he alone ? Obviously not !

Thanks to Owen who sent me Lt-Col Bowaters’ returns who was on the ridge, his Company included Captain Craufurd. (plaque at Hougoumont and died in the garden)
Clay mentioned that a “man called Philpott was killed next to him by the south gate”! In a list of SG dead, sure enough, Isaac Philpott died that day. But he’s not mentioned in the Light Company’s list of personnel.

Now, with all this mish-mash of reinforcements from the 9 other Companies, my principal concern is how do I find a list of all the names of those who participated in the farm on the 18th?
Please note that Jimmy at SG-Archives has told me that all the contents are absent and being digitalized.

Confused…, Iain.

PS Below (I hope) is a list of all/most the SG who died at Waterloo.
2nd Battalion, 3rd Foot Guards
Captain/Lt-Colonel Charles Fox Canning
Captain/Lt-Colonel Hon. Sir Alexander Gordon
Lieutenant/Captain & Adjutant William Stothert
Lieutenant/Captain John Ashton
Lieutenant/Captain Thomas Craufurd (plaque)
Lieutenant/Captain Hon. Hastings-Brudenell Forbes
Ensign Charles Simpson
Serjeant James Arnott
Serjeant James Laing
Serjeant James Twigg
Corporal William Vincent
Corporal John Elwell
Private Adam Allen
Private James Allen
Private JohnAllen
Private James Alsop
Private John Anson
Private George Aspinall
Private Edward Bambridge
Private John Bambridge
Private Henry Baroclough
Private John Birch
Private Enoch Bishop
Private Benjamin Blizard
Private Benjamin Boyce
Private John Broadbrook
Private Benjamin Brock
Private William Brown
Private William Brunton
Private Thomas Butler
Private John Caddock
Private John H.Carrot
Private William Cartwright
Private William Clayton
Private Michael Connelly
Private Thomas Coventry
Private Peter Deane
Private Benjamin Donkinson
Private John Eariot
Private Charles Edgar
Private Thomas Gale
Private Thomas Gaskell
Private George Goulding
Private Thomas Grange
Private George Green
Private Stephen Grigsby
Private Thomas Harvett
Private William Hickson
Private Richard Holmes
Private Henry Hubbard
Private John Jackson
Private Charles Kain
Private Jarvis Kent
Private John Lee
Private William Lister
Private Donald McBeth
Private Michael McKenley
Private Benjamin Merrick
Private Ralph Mitchell
Private John Newman
Private Joseph Peate
Private Thomas Peters
Private Isaac Philpott (mentioned by Clay)
Private William Read
Private William Robinson
Private George Russell
Private William Sanders
Private Samuel Sandiford
Private Henry Shaw
Private James Sheppard
Private James Somers
Private John Tomkinson
Private John Walker
Private Thomas Waring
Private Joseph Welch
Private Thomas Wichman
Private James Williams
Private Abraham Woller
Private John Worrell

PPS Any comments on those who died would be extremely appreciated. (Lol..., McBeth !!!?!)
>
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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby MarkW » August 7th, 2017, 2:49 pm

Iain,

Great work me ol' mucker! If you could get this done as I want to read it! AnythingI can help with for you?

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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby Iain » August 8th, 2017, 3:15 pm

Lol…, thanks Mark. Hope you are well ?

In the meantime, I believe my questions are becoming too difficult.
I’m starting to realize that I’m slowly entering a domain where answers to such questions have cost time and money for certain Historians and as a result, I totally understand their silence. Such info is used to create unique and sought-after publications !
(being the difference between a professional and an amateur)

Plagiarism is also another hurdle which has to be looked at carefully. Lol..., even for the amateur !

Kind Regards…, Iain.
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Re: The 3rd Regiment of Foot : (The Scots Guards)

Postby MarkW » August 10th, 2017, 12:14 am

Iain, things are very good thanks, and i hope with you too...with regard to using others' research, maybe speak with the researchers before publishing asking them how they would like proper credit?
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