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The Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815

A flag discovered.

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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby PaulD » May 1st, 2017, 11:48 am

The central device on the flag in question certainly matches the colour of the 15th company of the Coldstream Guards as shown in N.P. Dawnay's "The Standards, Guidons and Colours of the Household Division 1660-1973" p. 238. According to Dawnay, the first bills that record the painting on the colours of the battle honours "Lincelles" (according to Burne, a mistake by the Duke of York in his dispatch because the first "S" in Linselles was obscured on his campaign map and he misread it as a "C"), "Talavera" and "Barossa" were for the 1814 issue, with the addition of the honours "Peninsula" and "Waterloo" shown in the bills for 1815 - July for the former and the end of the year for the latter (pp. 155-6).
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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby Josh&Historyland » May 1st, 2017, 3:54 pm

Andrew Thornton has looked in Hugh Dawney's book and tells me that a chum of his, Keith Hingle (former Coldstreamer) has said the colour in question was part of the stand issued in 1828 & was sold at auction in 1972. This is apparently substantiated by Dawney.

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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby unclearthur » May 1st, 2017, 8:56 pm

Josh and JF - I don't know much about colours but this looks to me like a King's Colour. Wouldn't battle honours have been limited to the Regimental Colour, with the King's left plain apart from the crown and associated royal appointments?
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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby jf42 » May 1st, 2017, 10:59 pm

Isn't it meant to be a company colour?
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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby Josh&Historyland » May 1st, 2017, 11:50 pm

It is a Kings Colour, but as far as I'm aware both King's and Regimental colour's would bear honours. As the guards seem to have a tradition of alternating which company provides the King's and regimental colour stands I would expect both to have them.

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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby PaulD » May 2nd, 2017, 6:54 am

unclearthur wrote:Josh and JF - I don't know much about colours but this looks to me like a King's Colour. Wouldn't battle honours have been limited to the Regimental Colour, with the King's left plain apart from the crown and associated royal appointments?


Dawnay's book covers the design of the Foot Guards' colours in great detail. They did not follow the usual arrangements for the Regiments of Foot - the pattern of colour shown is for a company colour (the colonels' lieutenant-colonels and majors' colours were crimson with various devices) - and the battle honours were painted on all of the colours (24 for the Coldstream Guards in 1815). I think that it is the best source on this complicated topic, but a useful shorter guide is volume 2 of Ian Sumner's Osprey book "British Colours & Standards 1747-1881."
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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby CMcLeod2012 » May 2nd, 2017, 12:42 pm

Linked below is another Coldstream Guard colour I found on the net - in the Guards Museum and Guards Toy Soldier
Centre ?.
It is the 16th Company's colour and shows the same pattern of honours as the OP.

http://cdn.londonandpartners.com/asset/ ... 92f76b.jpg
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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby unclearthur » May 2nd, 2017, 8:52 pm

Never knew about 'company' colours. Thanks, guys! :D
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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby Iain » May 3rd, 2017, 4:49 am

I have a friend called John in the Welsh Guards who made the following point.
"In the Welsh Guards we have The Company Colours that are kept safe. Then we have Company 'Camp' Colours that are printed. I wonder if that happened at Hougamont?"

Following my remark that the WG was founded in 1915, I asked for an explanation and this was his reply..., "The WG was formed using Companies from the Grenadier Guards and as such, the WG adopted most of the GG traditions." He went on to ask if the same system may have been used at Hougoumont.
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Re: A flag discovered.

Postby Iain » May 3rd, 2017, 7:07 am

Concerning the Colours at Hougoumont:
I suppose I'm correct in thinking that the Light Companies wouldn't have had Colours. So it's only logical to presume that all 3 GG, CG and SG Colours were with their respective HQ Companies on the ridge. (?)
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