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The Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815

'Scots Guards' Company Returns: The 24th of June 1815.

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Re: 'Scots Guards' Company Returns: The 24th of June 1815.

Postby Iain » May 24th, 2017, 6:36 am

Thank you Owen…, very kind of you.
I’m extremely busy for the time being but I’m looking forward to studying your papers.

Very interesting the Bowater affair, at least that certifies her presence. But she was surely never at Hougoumont.
I’m not quite sure if Col Bowater’s Company fought in the orchard, I’ll have to research that. If he did, then George Osbourne probably died there.

Still no first name for her but perhaps the Aldershot Garrison Chaplaincy Team will have it. I sent them two messages with the first giving the impression that I wanted to get married; and
I’ve still had no reply. Lol…, they just don’t want me ! ;)

A genealogy friend found an Ann Osbourne, but the regiment doesn’t correspond.
Thank you for the emails and the research.
I’ll keep you updated.

----------------

Mark…, I’m writing a screenplay about Hougoumont ! (and only Hougoumont) At least, that’s how it started. (not even Napoleon will be present)
In doing so, I must build a strong character reference and skills for many of the participants. (even the French)

In the meantime with hundreds of related events like the one above, it’s slowly becoming clear that I may have to widen my horizon.
Mark..., did you receive my email ?


Kind Regards…, Iain.
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Re: 'Scots Guards' Company Returns: The 24th of June 1815.

Postby MarkW » May 24th, 2017, 1:52 pm

Morning Iain..as always, hope you are having a nice day....got your email and replied :)

Mark
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Re: 'Scots Guards' Company Returns: The 24th of June 1815.

Postby Iain » May 27th, 2017, 5:58 am

Hi All…

Owen very generously provided me with some of the Company Returns and in particular, that of Colonel Edward Bowater’s Company where George Osborne’s name can be found.
In the meantime, at the top of the same page for the officers, Captain Thomas Crauford (Craufurd) is down as “Dead 18 June 1815.”
http://napoleon-monuments.eu/Napoleon1e ... oumont.htm (about 2/3 down the page)

Now, we all know that Craufurd died at Hougoumont because his plaque is on the southern wall. But why was he not with his Company ?
We know that Ralph Fraser of HQ Company was sent down in the morning to join the Light Company and Clay also mentions the death of Philpot in the afternoon killed near the southern gate…, and his name’s not mentioned in the Light Company Returns.

Could this mishmash mean that at about the time Fraser arrived, there were many others (privates and officers) joining the SG Light Company ? And perhaps also the Coldstreamers ?
Or is there another explanation perhaps originating from Quatre Bras ?

Could this have been one of Wellingtons’ orders during his second visit when he emptied the farm of Coldstreamers, replaced them with Germans and repositioned the CG and SG to the kitchen garden ?
Then, perhaps on seeing the ‘flimsy’ red line of Guards along the garden’s hedge and realizing the important role they’d have to play in the next couple of hours, he may have called for reinforcements from the entire regiment/s ?

…, Iain.
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Re: 'Scots Guards' Company Returns: The 24th of June 1815.

Postby MarkW » May 29th, 2017, 2:43 pm

what year were they allowed to call themselves the Scots Guards as presumably they were not called that at the time of Waterloo, like the Royal North British Dragoons?

:)

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Re: 'Scots Guards' Company Returns: The 24th of June 1815.

Postby Iain » May 29th, 2017, 5:43 pm

Hi Mark…

It was Queen Victoria who changed the name to ‘The Scots Guards’ in 1877.

In the meantime and although I’m certain that it must rile some Historians, I always call a spade-a-spade. Not just because it’s easier to understand ‘2SG’ than the 2nd Battalion the 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards…, but also; I must admit, I have a chip on my shoulder ! ;)

For the past 40 years I’ve been helping out in a small way with fund raising for the SG. Then, when I started researching Waterloo, only the Coldstream Guards seemed to be present at Waterloo ! Their name was plastered everywhere and tourists leaving the battlefield left with the understanding that it was the Lilywhites that ‘won the war.’
(‘Lilywhite’ is the CG nickname)
What’s more, any American philanthropist wishing to donate following a visit, their money would certainly never be transferred to the ‘defunct’ 3rd Regiment of Foot Guards. :)
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Re: 'Scots Guards' Company Returns: The 24th of June 1815.

Postby jf42 » May 30th, 2017, 12:08 am

MarkW wrote:what year were they allowed to call themselves the Scots Guards as presumably they were not called that at the time of Waterloo, like the Royal North British Dragoons?

:)

Mark


in 1831 the Third Regiment of Foot Guards were given the title of Scots Fusilier Guards to accompany their being authorised to wear the bearskin cap throughout the regiment. The 'Fusilier' title was chosen because they couldn't be 'grenadiers,' since that was the honorary title granted the First Grenadier Regiment of Footguards in 1815- for reasons I assume we all know. The Coldstream Guards were involved in this package as well but while they accepted the cap, they quietly forgot the ' Fusilier' title.

The 'North British 'label gradually adopted in the years following the Act of Union in 1707 began to be updated in the 1870s. In 1871 The 1st Royal Regiment, having flirted with their Scots lineage and then thought better of it earlier in the century (1st Regiment of Foot (Royal Scots 1812-1821) adopted the title 1st, or The Royal Scots Regiment in 1871.

In 1877 the Scots Fusilier Guards dropped the 'Fusilier' label to become the Scots Guards, while simultaneously the 21st North British Fuzileers became the 21st Royal Scots Fusiliers Regiment. At the same time the 2nd (Royal North British) Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) became the 2nd Dragoons (Royal Scots Greys).

It's almost as if someone somewhere had a plan.
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Re: 'Scots Guards' Company Returns: The 24th of June 1815.

Postby Iain » May 30th, 2017, 4:47 pm

Hi All…

I’m now in contact with the Brigade’s Senior Chaplain Pat Aldred who has promised to speak with the new Scots Guards Chaplain when he joins the Regiment after the holidays.
My first question will of course be to ask if he can assist in finding the Waterloo Regimental religious archives in relation to Osbournes wedding.
If he can, I’m sure these archives will reveal a lot !
In the meantime, I somehow get the impression that they should be at Wellington Barracks but RHQ didn’t seem to agree. (‘difficult’ for him to verify as all the archives are away being digitalized)
Nonetheless, from my experience with research into old church clocks here in Belgium, the seminaries are very proud of their archives and would never part with them.
Also…, with the Queen Anne’s Bounty being used principally to help out poor chaplains and the like, he should also be able to assist with Mrs Osbourne’s award.
I’m wondering if the award would have been a ceremonial affair or just some sergeant knocking at her door with an envelope ?
As such, I’m trying to compile a list of competent questions:

1) From the marriage registry books, is there a name for Mrs Osbourne ?
2) Verification that a chaplain was present during the cremations.
3) Would the cremation of thousands of soldiers been a ceremonial affair (like today) and would there have been a church parade to remember the dead ?

If anyone has a pertinent question concerning Waterloo weddings, deaths or other religious affairs; don’t hesitate to let me know and I’ll add it to my list.

Regards…, Iain.
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